7 hydroxymytragynine, and Mytragynine psuedoindoxyl

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Just Alex

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I know everyone knows about kratom, and most people know about kratom shots. But a new type of product has hit shelves, that of pure 7 hydroxymytragynine (7OH) and Mytragynine Psuedoindoxyl tablets. Both are metabolites of mytragynine, but in their pure form, they are very strong, and work very fast. Both are stronger than morphine, but the Psuedoindoxyl is said to be 14 times stronger than that of morphine, more than that of 7OH. Since I've discovered these, I don't want to use any other opioid because of how easy it is right now to acquire the tablets,how well they work, and their currently legality. They are getting popular, and it's probably just a matter of time before these attract the attention of the powers that be... I'm pretty concerned over that.

I'm Just mentioning it for those who can't for whatever reason acquire other strong narcotics. These work so very well. USPS has lost my psuedoindoxyl tablets, but hopefully they show up before I have to just say fuck it and order more. I've only had 7OH so far, as psuedo tabs are an even newer thing.

To be clear, 7OH is a partial agonist at the mu receptor, and an antagonist at delta and some others, but the Psuedoindoxyl is a FULL AGONIST at the mu receptor. Quality tabs can be purchased at kratomdistro.com That's not a plug, just one of the two places I have found that don't sell the branded more expensive tabs sold in smoke shops, these are pressed and supposedly come with labs.

From the webs:
7OH

7-Hydroxymitragynine, like mitragynine, appears to be a mixed opioid receptor agonist/antagonist, acting as a partial agonist at μ-opioid receptors and as a competitive antagonist at δ- and κ-opioid receptors.[8][9] Evidence suggests that 7-OH is more potent than both mitragynine and morphine. 7-OH does not activate the β-arrestin pathway like traditional opioids, meaning symptoms such as respiratory depression, constipation, and sedation are much less pronounced.[8]

7-OH is generated from mitragynine in vivo by hepatic metabolism and may account for a significant portion of the effects traditionally associated with mitragynine. Although 7-OH occurs naturally in kratom leaves, it does so in such low amounts that any ingested 7-OH is inconsequential compared to the 7-OH generated in the body.[8]

Mytragynine Psuedoindoxyl

Mitragynine pseudoindoxyl is a μ-opioid receptor agonist and δ-opioid receptor antagonist. It is a G protein biased agonist at the μ-opioid receptor, which may be responsible for its favorable side effect profile compared to conventional opioids.[3] Cryo-EM structures of μOR-Gi1 complex with mitragynine pseudoindoxyl and lofentanil (one of the most potent opioids) revealed that the two ligands engage distinct subpockets, and molecular dynamics simulations showed additional differences in the binding site that promote distinct active-state conformations on the intracellular side of the receptor where G proteins and β-arrestins bind.[4] Importantly, studies have shown that oxidative metabolism is capable of transforming mitragynine (the main alkaloid in kratom) into mitragynine pseudoindoxyl in two steps, which is likely to influence kratom's complex pharmacological effects.
 
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The products you mentioned are the powder form. Does this mean they have to be injected
 
Oral tablets are what you see 99% of the time, Kratomdistro has tablets on their site, three different kinds. Neither drug is water soluble so they can't be injected. I guess they sell powder for those who want to use a scale or make / press their own. It's more cost effective to get powder I suppose
 
Oral tablets are what you see 99% of the time, Kratomdistro has tablets on their site, three different kinds. Neither drug is water soluble so they can't be injected. I guess they sell powder for those who want to use a scale or make / press their own. It's more cost effective to get powder I suppose
Thank you for the explanation, I will definitely look it up
 
That’s some interesting stuff!! I wonder how a brain would react to either of these if it’s been used to the typical opiates for the last several years? Would you substitute them? Is there a possibility of being thrown into precipitated withdrawals?

Yes it seems likely that some folks will come to a bad end with eirher of these substances and cause limited access, as typically happens. Maybe not tho. 🤔
 
I took small amounts for a few weeks, and last Friday started with the extreme insomnia, fouling myself with diarrhea, sneezing etc. This shit is strong, and it's addictive. Goes without saying, but I wanted to post a warning. I gotta take a few weeks break. I was NOT taking high doses even
 
I looked it up. Looks way too expensive to be of any use as a daily chronic pain med. However, Kratom IMO is excellent for fibromyalgia and we should fight to keep it legal and legalize it in places it’s been banned. Years ago it made headlines that the UK was taking a progressive approach to drugs. That only last a few years. Now the law is incredibly draconian about things like cannabis and Kratom. I’m stuck on this moldy island now for the foreseeable future. Really missing having access to stuff like this for chronic pain. I wonder if the price will come down to make this more affordable as a chronic pain option.
 
Yes at about five dollars per pill, it is very expensive. You can buy pure powder, and get a better deal though I think
 
I looked it up. Looks way too expensive to be of any use as a daily chronic pain med. However, Kratom IMO is excellent for fibromyalgia and we should fight to keep it legal and legalize it in places it’s been banned. Years ago it made headlines that the UK was taking a progressive approach to drugs. That only last a few years. Now the law is incredibly draconian about things like cannabis and Kratom. I’m stuck on this moldy island now for the foreseeable future. Really missing having access to stuff like this for chronic pain. I wonder if the price will come down to make this more affordable as a chronic pain option.
I have to admit - I'm surprised you feel you don't have better access to decent medicine where you live. I seem to come across a plethora of pharmacies who carry fairly decent pain meds - DHC included - that only serve the country itself and won't send the products internationally?

Obviously accessing much stronger PK's is only found on the black market, but that's true everywhere.

Just wondering...
 
I looked it up. Looks way too expensive to be of any use as a daily chronic pain med. However, Kratom IMO is excellent for fibromyalgia and we should fight to keep it legal and legalize it in places it’s been banned. Years ago it made headlines that the UK was taking a progressive approach to drugs. That only last a few years. Now the law is incredibly draconian about things like cannabis and Kratom. I’m stuck on this moldy island now for the foreseeable future. Really missing having access to stuff like this for chronic pain. I wonder if the price will come down to make this more affordable as a chronic pain option.
You may be disappointed to hear that kratom is no longer legal in the UK and hasn't been for a few years now. 7OH also is illegal. That's not to say the Dutch aren't generous with it..

Anyway on 7OH I'd exercise caution - it's a better alternative than opioids in a lot of ways however it's still highly addictive, much more so than kratom, and the withdrawal is extremely uncomfortable. Tolerance also increases quickly, as it does with kratom, and as has been mentioned it's more expensive.
 
Thank Dog, this could just save my not-so-sweet behind....I'm out of med's and have an outstanding order stuck at the Timbuck-Too sort facility in another country, and I was just now looking for a decent US-to-US option. This might be it. Alex, thanks, good stuff.
 
@GreenThumb Check out kratomdistro.com they sell 7OH and pseudo powder, it's a better buy than to buy pre pressed tabs

Below, there is 75% powder, for $74 per gram.


I just noticed this too , they require you to show proof you have a mg scale, that's strange but prudent I guess
 
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That’s some interesting stuff!! I wonder how a brain would react to either of these if it’s been used to the typical opiates for the last several years? Would you substitute them? Is there a possibility of being thrown into precipitated withdrawals?

Yes it seems likely that some folks will come to a bad end with eirher of these substances and cause limited access, as typically happens. Maybe not tho. 🤔
I don't think they're a partial antagonist at the mu opioid site, just at delta. I doubt there could be any precipitated withdrawal as they are mostly considered full agonists. I admit I don't completely understand the science behind how they work exactly. Maybe someone can explain how *exactly* they work?

I worry over a total kratom ban. Using kratom powder, vs. using these semi synthetic drugs is night and day but the power that be won't be that fair if they were to impose a ban. I worry over the new administration, I hope they can keep their efforts to keeping fentanyl out and not target us responsible substance users

edit: After taking a week break because I was in low level WD, I took a little less than a ¼ of a new batch of 50/50 7OH / Psuedoindoxyl tabs I got and holy shit, the Psuedoindoxyl is SO much stronger. It basically works in 15m or less and really slams you. Be careful!
 
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@GreenThumb Check out kratomdistro.com they sell 7OH and pseudo powder, it's a better buy than to buy pre pressed tabs

Below, there is 75% powder, for $74 per gram.


I just noticed this too , they require you to show proof you have a mg scale, that's strange but prudent I guess
I believe you are correct, Alex, pseudoindoxyl appears to be a full-on mu-agonsit and, more interesting, a delta level antagonist, which should be very interesting.

I ordered on Saturday and it just got here, man, what a stroke of luck......I'm about to dose up, the recommended dose for pseudoindoxyl is one-half of one 15mg tablet, I'll probably need to kick that a bit higher to one full tablet, given my years of using poppy tea and DHC (the latter is my absolute favorite opioid).

I'll give a report of effects later.
 
@GreenThumb Did you use kratom distro? Last night I took 15mg , there are muscles in my face that sort of vibrate/contract ( I can always hear it in my inner ear ) when I'm pretty high. It doesn't happen very often, but did last night. I want to eat some on Christmas day, so I'm taking today off. I'm afraid to take much because I don't want to feel like shit the next day
 
@GreenThumb Did you use kratom distro? Last night I took 15mg , there are muscles in my face that sort of vibrate/contract ( I can always hear it in my inner ear ) when I'm pretty high. It doesn't happen very often, but did last night. I want to eat some on Christmas day, so I'm taking today off. I'm afraid to take much because I don't want to feel like shit the next day

Alex - yes - I went with kratomdistro, I wanted to get pills instead of powder for my first try. If this works out, I'll get a decent gram scale and switch to powders. I don't want to mess with powders until I know what I'm doing, the last time I did that a few years back, I eyeballed a dose of phenazepam, and was out on my feet for 2 days. I had a lot of explaining to do afterwards, as you might imagine.

I took a 15mg pill and the subjective feel is definitely consistent with full mu-agonist effects, quite distinct from the impact of kratom leaf (which no longer works for me, due to my high tolerance). I've read a few papers that discuss opioid receptors, but it's still not clear to me why this drug would antagonize the delta receptor while simultaneously stimulating the mu-receptor, since the two receptors seem to do basically the same thing. However, I did find one interesting feature of delta receptors in one paper, which stated that the......

The clinical importance of heteromerization of opioid receptors is highlighted by the fact that despite μ-opioid receptors mediating, most of the pain-relieving effects of morphine, antagonism of δ-opioid receptors leads to a reduction in the tolerance that develops after chronic morphine administration.

I don't how to square this with the comments above about how addictive this stuff is and how bad the w/d's are. I suspect it may be analogous to the effects of dextromethorphan (DXM, the active ingredient in Tussin cough syrups) on opiates. DXM is often said to reduce tolerance, but that isn't what happens. Instead, DXM potentiates (and, apparently, synergizes) opiates, allowing one to get more powerful and distinct effects from the same opiate dose. Over time, however, one becomes habituated to the combined regimen, to the point where the effect of a same-dose opiate taken by itself, has diminished effects. Thus, tolerance actually increases, not because of the opiate itself, but because of the DXM enhancement.
 
@GreenThumb Did you also get 7OH tablets to contrast the difference in effects to it vs. Mit. Psuedoindoxyl? Also, about the delta receptor, I asked Google some questions and came up with this :

"By antagonizing the delta-opioid receptor, mytragynine psuedoindoxyl may have a reduced potential for certain side effects associated with full mu-opioid agonists, such as dysphoria (unpleasant mood) and hallucinations. This could potentially make MPI a more favorable opioid with a better side effect profile."

Also there is the fact that mytrgynine alkaloids don't effect the Beta arrestin pathway, which makes is much safer and honestly more preferable :

"
  • Reduced Respiratory Depression:
    • One of the major concerns with traditional opioids like morphine is their potential to suppress respiration, which can be life-threatening.

    • This respiratory depression is largely mediated by the β-arrestin pathway.
    • By minimally activating this pathway, mitragynine alkaloids, particularly 7-OH-mitragynine, may have a lower risk of causing significant respiratory depression compared to traditional opioids.
  • Reduced Risk of Addiction:
    • The β-arrestin pathway is also implicated in the development of opioid tolerance and dependence.

    • By minimally activating this pathway, mitragynine alkaloids may have a lower potential for addiction compared to traditional opioids.
    • However, it's important to note that kratom can still be habit-forming and can cause withdrawal symptoms upon cessation.
  • Altered Therapeutic Profile:
    • The lack of significant β-arrestin activation may contribute to the unique therapeutic profile of kratom, which includes analgesia (pain relief), anxiolysis (anxiety reduction), and potential anti-inflammatory effects, with a potentially lower risk of some of the more serious side effects associated with traditional opioids."
I think hypothetically this drug could completely replace drugs like morphine. I'm curious about it's half-life, There is not a whole lot of data, though there are researchers like Chris McCurdy PhD that have dedicated their lives to researching kratom. Here is Mr McCurdy being interviewed:
 
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@Just Alex, no I didn't order 7OH, as it is only a partial mu-agonist, I was fearful of precipitated w/d.

Years ago, I would use kratom leaf as a substitute, when I ran out of poppies (I drank poppy pod tea for a number of years before switching to pharm's) and it worked flawlessly. Over time, however, it became less useful, as my tolerance increased. The last few attempts with kratom were a failure - I actually felt worse after taking it, since I didn't wait long enough. The problem is tolerance, it just keeps marching upward, no matter how many breaks you take. I didn't believe this when I was first warned about it from an older head, who used opiates for 40+ years, but it's been proven true nonetheless.

I think you are right about the potential for kratom, I see it more as a complement to existing opioids, rather than a replacement. That said, I hope Big Pharma keeps away, the last thing we need is for the medical establishment to grab control over it and monopolize it, just as they always do. Let it stay in the grey area, otherwise, the only access we will have to it in the future will be via prescription.
 
@GreenThumb hi there! What type of poppy tea do you use? I am looking for ways to control my chronic pain. I have young kids so don’t want any type of mood/brain altering effects but also want to be an engaged mom who isn’t crying in the corner all the time due to pain.
 
@GreenThumb hi there! What type of poppy tea do you use? I am looking for ways to control my chronic pain. I have young kids so don’t want any type of mood/brain altering effects but also want to be an engaged mom who isn’t crying in the corner all the time due to pain.
Poppy tea is the original opioid so it will definitely affect your brain and mood the exact same way any other opioid will.

If you stick around the forum you’ll come across some other mild pk’s tho too that may help? It sucks that doctors have abandoned you…😔

I don’t know of any good spots to source the poppy tea makings these days tho. Hopefully @GreenThumb will chime in.

Best wishes! 🙏
 
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