Here we go again, one individuals actions cause this...

[jaders]

@jaders i have a feeling perry would have continued to make poor choices, as he was an addict. he even needed a sobriety coach on the friends set, so many years ago. celebrities use their power and money to force others to their will. i looked up the case and he definitely was involved with some shady characters but to be real he sought them out. i still think the assistant was forced into this, due to his job and the power imbalance. what's missing from the news is perry's culpability. he apparently asked for his assistant to "load him up a big one." maybe it's just the questionable reporting but they make out perry to be a victim. (i don't know much about ketamine, as i thought it came in pills. at least perry had the nous to get regulated prescription drugs)

i just resent that the few real addicts like perry ruin things for everyone else. addiction is a disease and an awful one. yet we do wave off alcoholism because it's legal while drug deaths set off a feeding frenzy. addicts should be removed from the discussion, not used by the government to limit everyone else. plenty of people can have a glass of wine and stop. plenty of people can take their prescribed pks for years with no problem. what's the difference?

i remember a similar witch hunt with anna nicole smith. she used aliases when getting prescribed meds to avoid press and blame was placed on her bf/lawyer. he was finally acquited (he forced her to hide her identity? seriously?) i felt sorry for the guy because no one forced anna to mix chloral hydrate with her cocktail of drugs. the poor guy spent years in court fighting the charges before a judge dismissed the case, saying the guy had suffered enough (and cost the government 500k to boot). who decided to waste public money on such a bizarre charge?

I totally agree! When you’re rich and famous it isn’t that much different than a movie producer “forcing” an actress (or actor) to give sexual favors, or a boss who has power over their employees demanding the same. Power gives privilege and trying to blame others for what Perry chose to ingest is pathetic as hell imho…

If we would put the responsibility where it belongs, no one else would need to be punished or forced to go without, for other folks’ transgressions. It just seems so simple to me, honestly…

 

[Tripple 0]

I feel like this might be a topic that might upset some, I dont mean it in a disrespectful way, but I turn on the news and the whole nonsense story about Matthew Perry the dude from Friends now has a drug Ketamine, that is really the last thing we should be concerned about, in the spotlight.
Its not that Im saying that the guy deserved it, or anything like that but now because of what I truly feel in that particular situation he did make choices that it was on him to not overdue it, this is something that wasnt spiked or fake or synthetic. It was measureable medication that has helped alot of people. Dude abused it. They said i believe he had 3 doses that day, not a lot really. Now the doctors are of course to blame.

It to me is extremely frustrating b/c young people are dying at a sickening rate young people, unknowing individuals looking for relief and because its such a liability for doctors to even give a thing out for pain. So ppl then turn to street products, which are at least in some areas of the country flooding in and are mde to be indistinguishable from acttual pharmaceuticals. Which I actually kind of want to open a seperate thread addressing what we should be doing to combat that issue.

I know we are living in some pretty hyper sensitive but I just feel like suddenly sh*t matters b/c its an actor...That kinda sad, i mean i feel like im more and more just finding myself to be completely not understanding people. I think its always a tragedy when someone loses their life from drugs but that, then literally almost everything else in society feels like...honestly embarassing. I really just am someone who goes off of rationale and logical thought, it seems to be more and more of a thing of the past.

Im curious others thoughts

Hey, I've only just seen this. What you saw was on the News.
Are you aware of the circumstances before his death? What he was posting on Instagram? (I think, either Instagram or Twitter?) the references to Batman, the video of someone throwing a few cranberries on a desk (the lead singer of the Irish pop/rock band 'The Cranberries' died at a young age a year or two before Perry) and the last photograph he ever took, which was him in the hot tub he allegedly died in?
There is more than meets the eye to this and I believe it's highly likely that Perry was actually murdered, and knew that he would be- hence him sending cryptic messages online just before his death.
Just saying.
In the USA and UK, they don't want sensible, intelligent people being freed from depression and anxiety at this point in history. They are pushing extremely unethical and technically criminal legislation at a faster and faster rate. They don't want people having enough courage to stand against this.

This is merely my opinion. I understand your point. I believe there is an agenda behind almost everything, especially access to medication.

I don't recommend the news media if you want truth but I know that is not the point. I believe that this will get blown over and forgotten about, if it isn't already.

 

[Tripple 0]

I feel you... I think it's just a matter of time that ketamine is put in a negative light. Though to be fair it is the one substance that seems to have gone in and out of healthcare's good graces.

Yeah, ketamine has been a controlled substance for decades. It's only recently been used for anything other than anesthesia.
I'm pretty sure Mat Perry's death will not cause much to change in regards to ketamine. This new stance on ketamine being used for depression and other things is promising because ketamine, to the right person under the right circumstances is a miracle drug.

Ketamine therapy seems to be lumped in with microdosing mushrooms and LSD and is being pushed in newsletters such as DoubleBlind mag.
It all has a psychedelic kind of new age vibe to it. This is just how I've noticed it's been presented to me, I know the doctors involved are nothing to do with this.
Hopefully though, the younger generation of doctors are inspired to help give naturally occurring substances such as psilocybin, hemp, mescaline, DMT etc the respect it deserves in the western medical field.

Abuse of medication has been a serious inconvenience for all of us and has lead to restrictions and over the top paranoia for legal prescribers.

 

[NorthernNinja]

@notcharlotte do celebrities double Doctor and get away with it? What’s the risk of double doctoring in the UK are the tracking systems tight?

 

[liltiki2]

Matthew Perry was Chandler to millions. The affable, sarcastic, funny and ultimately insecure guy who wore his heart on his sleeve. Kind of a Jimmy Stewart/Tom Hanks. That was not Perry of course but it plays a huge part in this hysteria. Michael William’s od, the investigation and outrage petered out quickly. Phillip Hoffman was a shock but the investigation went off the rails and disappeared. Perry had a likability factor that not many actors have (except for some of the others in the Friends cast maybe) and neither Michael nor Phillip were so loved by fans.
He was an addict even during the friends reunion show when he said he was sober and was a mess…Not sober.
If it happened to Joaquin Phoenix the public wouldn’t have had this reaction over him.
Perry had no control over his addictions, obviously. Would someone telling this mega millionaire star that he was taking to much and he could ruin ket for others if he dies. He wouldn’t have cared. He was a hardcore addict, not Chandler

I sat on his lap one time and we talked a bit. He was very nice. It was the first year of Friends. Maybe it was an Emmy party. 1994 ish.

 

[Synecdoche]

Matthew Perry was Chandler to millions. The affable, sarcastic, funny and ultimately insecure guy who wore his heart on his sleeve. Kind of a Jimmy Stewart/Tom Hanks. That was not Perry of course but it plays a huge part in this hysteria. Michael William’s od, the investigation and outrage petered out quickly. Phillip Hoffman was a shock but the investigation went off the rails and disappeared. Perry had a likability factor that not many actors have (except for some of the others in the Friends cast maybe) and neither Michael nor Phillip were so loved by fans.
He was an addict even during the friends reunion show when he said he was sober and was a mess…Not sober.
If it happened to Joaquin Phoenix the public wouldn’t have had this reaction over him.
Perry had no control over his addictions, obviously. Would someone telling this mega millionaire star that he was taking to much and he could ruin ket for others if he dies. He wouldn’t have cared. He was a hardcore addict, not Chandler

I sat on his lap one time and we talked a bit. He was very nice. It was the first year of Friends. Maybe it was an Emmy party. 1994 ish.

Just an FYI on Michael K. Williams, they actually got the dealers that sold him the H, which happened to be laced with F. I don’t remember how much time they got sentenced for, but they sold MORE laced H to undercover defectives, even after they knew they killed Willams (if I remember correctly).

With his case, they actually did follow up. I believe it was because he was such a beloved actor, basically starting with Omar from The Wire.

 

[notcharlotte]

@notcharlotte do celebrities double Doctor and get away with it? What’s the risk of double doctoring in the UK are the tracking systems tight?

not from the uk so i don't know. the us has a prescription monitoring system so your doc can see your prescriptions. i think it's just for controlled meds, as the primary doc knows you see specialists and get other meds. i think the uk has one too, at least that's what google says.

it seems like perry had a doc who prescribed his ketamine. it's similar to michael jackson who had a doctor dispense his sleep med. both men had the money to seek out these docs and obtain legitimate prescriptions. for your average person trying to double dip with docs is a sure way to lose any help.

 

[Alpha29]

The worse thing about this I feel is that these types of tragedies make people less willing to even consider Ketamine or other substances as having the tremendously real medical value and this is the idea of it let alone people actually doing research or something meaningful to progress us out of the "dark ages" that were now currently living in.

 

[NorthernNinja]

@notcharlotte do celebrities double Doctor and get away with it? What’s the risk of double doctoring in the UK are the tracking systems tight?

not from the uk so i don't know. the us has a prescription monitoring system so your doc can see your prescriptions. i think it's just for controlled meds, as the primary doc knows you see specialists and get other meds. i think the uk has one too, at least that's what google says.

it seems like perry had a doc who prescribed his ketamine. it's similar to michael jackson who had a doctor dispense his sleep med. both men had the money to seek out these docs and obtain legitimate prescriptions. for your average person trying to double dip with docs is a sure way to lose any help.

What if you got one prescription for brand and one prescription from different doctor for generic? Are you still going to get caught for controlled drugs?

 

[alumni]

@NorthernNinja

That is the textbook definition of "doctor shopping."

 

[felixcat]

Since people asked about it, I'm in the UK and NO a private Dr does not have to share any information with your GP or NHS services. You can choose whether they share that information or not - UNLESS you were referred to the private Dr by the GP, in which case, they do have to.

I know this because I have had to see private Drs a few times in emergency circumstances to get Librium when in alcohol withdrawal. My GP was never told on any of those occasions, even though I didn't much care whether they knew or not.

However, seeing a private Dr is freaking expensive over here, so it would be very hard to "doctor shop" nowadays unless you had tons of money. And most decent Drs in the private sector are there to help, not help you kill yourself. So, I'm sure if I was going for anything other than short courses of medication, I would have been questioned.

But there will always be addicts. And there will always be dodgy doctors who will take advantage of addicts' desperation, I'm sure.

As someone in recovery from alcoholism myself, do I blame pubs and bars for that? No. But what I would like to see is much more understanding of addiction in society AND better understanding and treatment the medical field.

GPs get a minute amount of training on addiction. In the past, I went to addiction services where the workers had zero clue what addiction really was and gave me terrible advice. I have been chucked out of hospitals in full alcohol withdrawal which could have killed me because they didn't want to deal with an addict (hence emergency private Drs). Many rehabs are just revolving doors designed to make money - and they know it. It's a great business model. Repeat relapses = repeat customers.

No wonder people suffer for years, never being adequately treated and suffering from stigma all the way.

Less stigma. More understanding and education. Better treatment. Do all that, and people won't need to "doctor shop" anyway. Addiction isn't fun. We don't do it for a laugh. We are people in pain who know no other way to cope and have often got ourselves so physically dependent that we couldn't even stop safely if we wanted to.

I am only on this forum because I need a stock of emergency meds in case of alcohol relapse, because I sure as hell won't be treated at a hospital. I am largely winning the battle. I know I will never return to my former life as an addict struggling every day. But despite being sober 98% percent of the time, 1 mis-step and I hit life-threatening withdrawal. It's just what my body does now.

Even if I get 10 consecutive years sober, I will ALWAYS have a stock of meds because the absolute fear of dying if I have nothing and no-one to help me should I make a mistake. Because getting medically treated in the UK quickly and effectively is frankly a joke.

RIP Matthew Perry. I'm sorry you never found any semblance of recovery. There but for the grace of Buddha go I.

 

[GreenThumb]

@notcharlotte ... but he unfortunately succumbed to his addiction.

I guess that is one way to assign responsibility for his sad passing.
However, Matthew Perry was, in my opinion, poisoned by those people in his life who continued to supply and inject him with obviously unsafe doses of ketamine until eventually they killed him.
The legal system will ultimately sort it out and we'll see if these characters are found guilty and punished for their contributions to his death.
I personally hope so.

The culprit - is Matthew Perry. I don't know this guy, never watched his show (I don't own a TV), but I am 100% confident in making that statement nevertheless. It makes me sad and angry to read about this.

No one put a gun to this guy's head, he did the deed himself. Yes, the guy that charged him $55k for ketamine is a filthy hyena, a predator feeding off the desperation of another. But, there's no shortage of these types in Hollywood, if he hadn't sold K to Perry, someone else somewhere would have gladly stepped up to make that kind of money.

No one - not even these militant, pumped-up government goons - can stop demand-driven activities. Look at the history of drug prohibition, all it has done is block access to the more traditional drugs and force users into less safe options. You can see the progression - pharma grade drugs, then heroin, black tar - and now fentanyl. Trillions (not billions) spent on a multi-generational drug war and who has benefited, other than Big Pharma, the prison industry, and these disgusting politicians that used prohibition as a stepping stone for their own sordid ambitions.

 

[jaders]

@notcharlotte ... but he unfortunately succumbed to his addiction.

I guess that is one way to assign responsibility for his sad passing.
However, Matthew Perry was, in my opinion, poisoned by those people in his life who continued to supply and inject him with obviously unsafe doses of ketamine until eventually they killed him.
The legal system will ultimately sort it out and we'll see if these characters are found guilty and punished for their contributions to his death.
I personally hope so.

The culprit - is Matthew Perry. I don't know this guy, never watched his show (I don't own a TV), but I am 100% confident in making that statement nevertheless. It makes me sad and angry to read about this.

No one put a gun to this guy's head, he did the deed himself. Yes, the guy that charged him $55k for ketamine is a filthy hyena, a predator feeding off the desperation of another. But, there's no shortage of these types in Hollywood, if he hadn't sold K to Perry, someone else somewhere would have gladly stepped up to make that kind of money.

No one - not even these militant, pumped-up government goons - can stop demand-driven activities. Look at the history of drug prohibition, all it has done is block access to the more traditional drugs and force users into less safe options. You can see the progression - pharma grade drugs, then heroin, black tar - and now fentanyl. Trillions (not billions) spent on a multi-generational drug war and who has benefited, other than Big Pharma, the prison industry, and these disgusting politicians that used prohibition as a stepping stone for their own sordid ambitions.

Every word…

 

[alumni]

@GreenThumb

In some cases, two conclusions can be true at the same time.
Matthew Perry was obviously accountable for the results of his addiction. He paid the ultimate price with his life.
At the same time, there are allegations that, if proven, must share the responsibility for his death.
The dealers, crooked doctors and other enablers must also be held accountable. You can certainly blame Mr. Perry for his actions but he sadly isn't here to face it.
Hopefully, our legal system will deal with those who are here.

 

[GreenThumb]

@GreenThumb

In some cases, two conclusions can be true at the same time.
Matthew Perry was obviously accountable for the results of his addiction. He paid the ultimate price with his life.
At the same time, there are allegations that, if proven, must share the responsibility for his death.
The dealers, crooked doctors and other enablers must also be held accountable. You can certainly blame Mr. Perry for his actions but he sadly isn't here to face it.
Hopefully, our legal system will deal with those who are here.

OK, that would be the DEA, ATF, DOJ, DHS and every politician that endorsed drug prohibition. Suppose - just suppose - the government took a more progressive posture toward personal drug use. You want to put the drug dealers out of business, okay how about this: would it not be preferable for the state to maintain pharmacies where drug users could have access to legal, safely-manufactured med's at a subsidized price, without harassment or stigma?

Given that drug use is a demand-driven activity, the demand does not go away when you punish people for exercising what I would argue is an absolute right protected within our Bill of Rights.

 

[Babygoats]

So Perry paid the one dude 55k for ketamine, I mean well if he spent that mucch on the streete...need I say more? he had only 27 shots. He clearly wasnt exactly a genious in this whole thing. I do apologize if anyone is taking this the wrong way or simply i guess bothered by this thought but I feel like we are all responsible for our own actions. If something happens to me and its not from a fake pill, even if it is...I did make some choices. However most of the time I do feel that its the fake drugs that look like real ones that are straight up undenuable in the fact that they are poison, not meant for anyone who doesnt have an already insane tolerance, that idk why we are just looking the other way... it make oxycontin look like a lite drug. Just saying idk anymore.

This whole thing is ridiculous. I can't believe they are charging so many people in this case. All it does is make Mathew Perry a victim. We all know that's not the case. He has a long history of addiction. This was his decision! Someone with the amount of fame and money he has means he has enough money to get whatever he wants. Someone will provide him with that he needs.

 

[alumni]

@Babygoats

This is a circular discussion I guess.
The fact is Matthew Perry was a "victim." The victim of his out-of-control addiction.
At the same time, drug dealers, crooked doctors and others were knowingly providing (and injecting) dangerous amounts of ketamine to him. I believe there's plenty of criminality to be investigated here.
This whole situation reminds me of Michael Jackson's doctor--induced propofol death and recent dealer prosecutions for deaths caused by fentanyl infused pills.
I just can't imagine how anyone could absolve these bad actors of any personal blame for Mr. Perry's demise.

 

[jaders]

@Babygoats

This is a circular discussion I guess.
The fact is Matthew Perry was a "victim." The victim of his out-of-control addiction.
At the same time, drug dealers, crooked doctors and others were knowingly providing (and injecting) dangerous amounts of ketamine to him. I believe there's plenty of criminality to be investigated here.
This whole situation reminds me of Michael Jackson's doctor--induced propofol death and recent dealer prosecutions for deaths caused by fentanyl infused pills.
I just can't imagine how anyone could absolve these bad actors of any personal blame for Mr. Perry's demise.

Because these folks are supplying a demand. And if the substance was alcohol we wouldn’t think of blaming the suppliers of alcohol for someone’s death. I know we sometimes do hold folks accountable for supplying alcohol knowing that someone will be driving but that’s a whole different issue. That’s because it's likely to hurt someone else - not them.

Also, If someone sells me a substance that's not what they claim it is (as the case in fentanyl tainted items) yes those folks should definitely be prosecuted because they are lying about what they're giving you. But when someone sells or supplies an item I want and actively seek, that behavior is on me, no matter what the reason. Just because someone is an addict doesn't mean they get a pass on acting responsibly, imho. A diabetic who knows they have an issue with certain foods and ways of eating but continues to eat dangerously is no different.

Either you’re on the side of human rights and responsibilities or you want someone else to control your behavior for you. It’s pretty simple in my view.

Prohibition doesn’t work. It’s so obvious and we realized it with alcohol. Why we keep trying in other areas is beyond me.

It’s like trying to control folks who go rock climbing without necessary precautions. Do we really want the government in charge of all our choices?

Information is one thing. Telling folks how addictive something can be is very useful. But telling them they cannot under any circumstances have access to choices is another. And it’s what leads to folks abdicating making responsible choices in the first place.

 

[4legsgood]

@jaders great post …100% on… tho must admit I have not read post you refer specifically the words you write I agree with. Thank you

 

[4legsgood]

@jaders, and at @alumni …Ok read previous post… from our also so well regarded member. Our forum works so well when members write thought provoking posts.. thank you both